The Benefits if Designing in RGB for CMYK Print | color setup, gamuts and profiles | Andrew Kelsall | Graphic Designer…

I generally support the notion of designing in an RGB color mode ― for print and web for imagery that is to be printed in CMYK….

[...] What are the Benefits of Designing in RGB for CMYK Print? [...]

You’ve given me some great advice there Mike. I was totally unaware that you can send files in an RGB colour mode and let the digital presses convert the profile. Thanks for sharing your knowledge…

Thanks for the info, I wasn’t aware of the PDF colour issue. Always willing to learn

I would have thought it was a standard methodology too, however, I think there is a mindset out there which screams “CMYK, CMYK” as soon as a print project comes along.

I agree, things like this need discussion to aid in great solutions for all designers. Thanks for your valuable input

Bringing to the table this kind of discussions is good for everybody, there are many great comments here, I like to know how other designers work, so congrats for the article, Andrew!
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No matter what you create in RGB, in the end, it still has to be converted to CMYK and the color conversion won’t look the same. In fact, it can be disgustingly muted.

I’m primarily talking about Photoshop Files that have a base photographic element here. So, if certain colors become Muted, there’re going to become muted anyway. I simply propose that the RGB>CMYK conversion happens as late as possible.

Whichever way you work, the conversion WILL take place anyway. All photo-files are source RGB—theres no such thing as a CMYK camera, as you know.

The wider color gamut in RGB is exactly why you shouldn’t design with it for 4c ouput. The colors can’t be printed.

This, in my opinion, is exactly why you should wait until the layered Photoshop is complete. The huge benefit is that the image can be re-used on the web with only a slight loss to the color gamut when converting from, say, Adobe RGB (1998) > sRGB 2.1 (which is a slightly more compressed color space).

For print, this file can be converted to CMYK, yes, with color degradation—that would be apparent anyway from the camera RGB profile to a CMYK profile. The method I suggest enables a more coherent statergy towards the possibilities of mult-image use from Web to print.

Other than that, there is NO benefit to designing in RGB.

The wider color gamut in RGB is exactly why you shouldn’t design with it for 4c ouput. The colors can’t be printed.

No matter what you create in RGB, in the end, it still has to be converted to CMYK and the color conversion won’t look the same. In fact, it can be disgustingly muted.

Not really, because many colors will be clipped, except for maybe yellows and hue blues. I would just work from an RGB 2.1 profile from the get-go.

The only exception would be if you were designing a really, really color critical piece of photographic work for print, whereby the main color is an extreme yellow, which isn’t in the range of any RGB gamut.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the support. I’ve finished the post on Color profiles now @ http://www.andrewkelsall.com/what-are-color-profiles/

Next up, Color Gamuts

Thank you for shedding some light on this subject. I’m going to be sure to pass this on to some people who remain unconvinced.

Also, thanks for commenting on our blog.

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[...] they are sent to the press. Typically images are converted to CMYK early in the game, however, Andrew Kelsall makes a good argument for working in RGB and converting everything upon completion—and [...]

I wouldn’t say designing for CMYK print is a rule I’m trying to promote―I just believe, in my own opinion and experience, that there are many benefits of doing so. Each to their own of coarse

I agree, RGB to CMYK conversion is a color-destructor―but the “destructive result” will be within the same color-gamut than if you were to design in CMYK anyway.

I think by Saturday, hopefully, I should have completed my article on color profiles. I will raise some more points about the RGB/CMYK issue then if you would like some more info on the subject.

Thanks for commenting…

I know that rules are made to be broken, but in this case, i won’t stop working in CMYK for print and in RGB for screen. Screen renders 3 colors, printers print in 4 colors.
RGB to CMYK conversion is a color-destructor. but hey, I’m always open to new workflow and habits.

Can’t say I’ll try :S

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I can’t think of any offhand, but PSD Tuts @ http://psd.tutsplus.com/ would be a great place to find this information. If I do find one in particular, I’ll email you the Link.

Thanks for commenting, hope you like the follow-up when I get around to writing it

Can you suggest a website/tutorial where I can learn an effective workflow to converting RBG to CMYK? As think I want to try working from a RGB as the starting point of my print designs.

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Anyway, it’s been a great discussion David. I’m off to bed early for once as I’m knackered, been busy in the garden amongst other things. Oh yeah, I did some design work too

As for the Bernard Matthews logo, it looks like an illustration, and for me, that’s not good in logo design, whether it’s vector based or not.

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I can’t imagine you designing a logo such as that, David. They aren’t scalable for one as you well know. I am no way way am I suggesting that you would do this. I was considering the possibility of professional logos that potentially contain raster images…

It just got me thinking about the Bernard Mathews logo, with the image that is contained in it. Do you think this is an actual image or vector-traced image? I’m not sure…

David Aireys last blog post..Sex, Lies and Photoshop

Was the logo vector or image based? I work with the following rules for general use:

★ Bitmap Image File for eventual Print > RGB : Adobe RGB Color Profile.
★ Bitmap Image File for Web > RGB : sRGB IEC 61966-2.1
★ Vector File saved for PhotoShop® import > RGB : sRGB IEC 61966-2.1 or Adobe RGB depending on final output
★ Vector File for print > CMYK (normally FOGRA 27 C/U)

…so I do agree with logo and vector files being saved as CMYK. The only time I would consider RGB is if the logo was produced solely for the web.

When I was starting out a few years back, I created a logo in RGB, and the client loved it. They were then left a little disappointed after I converted to CMYK for print use (a particular green wasn’t as vivid). For my purposes, using CMYK from the start makes sense, but we can each have different preferences.

David Aireys last blog post..Sex, Lies and Photoshop

I like your statement “…easier to have all the options available”. In my opinion, if you start in RGB, you can always “dumb-down” when saving to CMYK―but you still have the richness of a wider gamut for re-using an image for online use.

Like yourself I do everything in RGB and then convert any print stuff to CMYK. I personally find it easier to have all the options available in Photoshop and even if I’m designing a logo in Illustrator I’ve just gotten in the (maybe bad) habit of starting new documents in RGB.

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Thanks for the follow. Look forward to your posts and twitts

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The way I see it, there’s always going to be a visible difference anyway, as [and obviously] screens are back-lit and paper just reflects or absorbs light. Personally, I like web images to use the maximum amount of Gamut possible, as it’s going to look brighter, clearer and generally more graceful on screen anyway.

Although I do prefer to see design work printed, like you have mentioned in one of your previous posts. I’ll go into more detail on the Gamuts article when I get around to writing it.

[...] yeah, that’s the first time I have used an image in a comment ― the honour goes to you David, you must be special

@ Christian

I checked out your link, but I have a question: What color profile did you save the files in? If it was just “Generic”, this would explain the color disparity. Also, even if the files were saved in a suitable color profile, the three printer services may have been using different printers ― or the same type, but different models. It’s a great concept for a post, but I feel there are too many variables to make a proper comparison. There is one thing I do agree though ― I’ve heard nothing that great about VistaPrint.

Thanks for commenting Christian, I’ve just followed you back

@ Mike

Thanks for the Pantone® tip, I wasn’t aware of that ― although when I specify them, I never use the libraries, as I look in my swatchbook, choose one and manually enter it. I normally use the Guide “Formula Guide : Coated/Uncoated” (which even includes metalics and fluorescents).

I will look into the issue though, as I plan to write an article of Pantones in the near future, so thanks for the heads-up.

I’m really looking forward to reading any more of your posts about color gamuts, especially any thoughts you have about implementing color profiles for more accuracy.

Check out this post: http://printedproof.com/printing/1-print-file-3-printers-3-different-results/

following you on twitter for updates…

Christian
@printedproof

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The thing with converting from CMYK to RGB for web, then ‘brightening’ or adding contrast, is there’ll be a visible difference. If the client wants this, no worries, but if they want the colour to remain consistent, then the conversion doesn’t make an issue.

Cheers for including that colour chart in your comment. I’d not seen that before, and it’s definitely a good’un.

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[...] make it look good in RGB and then making it look worse in CMYK means you’re giving the audience two different pieces of artwork..

I would disagree on this one. In my opinion, if you start off by working with a the ‘color-superior’ RGB image, yes, converting to CMYK will clip out-of-gamut colors. However, if I designed in CMYK from the get-go, any RGB conversion for online use would result in an even greater degree of color loss.

When I’m designing, I use my LCD screen which utilizes RGB, so even designing in ‘preview CMYK’ is just a simulation anyway. Whichever way you look at it, it’s all simulation until a file is printed.

Regarding filters, I use them quite often ― not in an in-your-face manner, but in very subtle ways, I use lighting effects and texture gradients often in my line of work.

I suppose when it comes down to it, it’s all about what a designer is designing. I wrote this article on a perspective of designing large, graphically-intense, image-laden PhotoShop files. If, however, you’re designing mostly in Illustrator ― and doing logo work, CMYK may be a more valid option depending on workflow.

Thanks for your input Alex. I do value your opinion and knowledge on the subject. I think our opinions and workflows differ based on the work we do. As I do a lot of large format work, the 25% reduction in file size for the initial design stages is, in itself, enough to sway me to RGB.

@ ProjectCenter

Are you referring to my article or the comment by Alex?

@ Mike

Yeah, I think there is some confusion over the issue. When I was at uni, I heard nothing on the subject. Then at some point, I was told to always work in CMYK. After learning for myself how constraining this was after producing some digital illustrations, I have for the past few years embraced the RGB-to-CMYK workflow.

Admitently, is does require knowledge of color gamuts, but I feel that this method is very beneficial. However, if others designers work solely in CMYK, I’m not saying it is wrong. Each to his/her own and if the final printed product looks great ‘the process is in the eye of the …designer’

It seems many designers skip the costs of printed color proofing, which I think is one reason proper production processes are forgotten or lost.

I think I’m guilty on this one too. I rely mainly on the PDF workflow, but I rarely do work with massive print-runs.

Thanks for leaving your thoughts Mike.

@ David

I assume the majority of your work is producing logo’s in Illustrator (?) If so, i’d say CMYK may work out better, as you’d be specifying Spot colors anyway.

However, saving RGBs from CMYK files for web use will result in a major clipping of the color gamut in some cases. If you look at the image below, you can see that converting an image will clip vibrant blue and reds of your web images, making them looking dull unless you experiment with Photoshops’ saturation setting, etc.

If you see how small the CMYK gamut is, no wonder I like to start all my PSD files off in RGB. To me, it’s like starting a journey on the right foot. If you start in CMYK, your conversions will never reach the colors of the yellow boundary (above) unless the image is enhanced.

Thanks for your comment David, keep up the good work.

My workflow is to design in CMYK, then transfer to RGB for web use. The Pantone chart provides more than enough colour for my needs, though I can appreciate that RGB is more appropriate for those working mainly for web.

David Aireys last blog post..A path for our sins

I think you kind of argued my point for me there, Sir.

Even if you’re working in RGB with CMYK preview on, you’re still designing to make what you’re presented look good — so you’re essentially designing for CMYK anyway

And the lower colour pallet is a good thing, isn’t it? It means whatever you design, while it may have less colours than possible, is going to look the same no matter the medium.. make it look good in RGB and then making it look worse in CMYK means you’re giving the audience two different pieces of artwork..

But i have to say, the point about the filters is a valid one, but really, how many do you use?

And also, RGB -> CMYK fiddles with adjustment layers, which means you’d need to flatten the artwork, save as a separate version then convert colour mode. all of a sudden that 25% file size difference doesn’t matter so much when you have an extra file sitting there and extra workflow anyway.

CMYK to RGB (and new file) isn’t so bad as the RGB is going to be for screen, therefor lower res, lower file size.

but, at the end of the day, that’s just my workflow (to a point, 99% print here), and whatever works best for each person is all that matters

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